"The vegetarians point out it is cruel to kill animals. The non-vegetarians point out that some factor has got to control the population-increase rate of every species: either predators (such as non-vegetarians), disease, or famine and of these predators are possibly the most humane."
"Vegetarianism seems to be almost wholly an urban, or big city, phenomenon, and is possibly due to people having been cut off from animals for so long that they tend to anthropomorphism. The humane non-vegetarian says (and I am one) that animals should be kept in the conditions most nearly approaching those for which they were evolved as possible, treated as humanely and subjected to no cruelties and indignities and, when their times comes, killed instantly and with no long journeys to far-away markets or abattoirs. This is perfectly possible on the self-supporting holding, and the animal need have no inkling that anything is going to happen to it."
John Seymour - The Complete Book Of Self Sufficiency 1976
And, of course, he was 100% correct.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately not every producer of meat and animal products has your high standards. It's very hard nowadays to know for certain how animals have been kept. The dairy industry in particular has some very dubious practises.
ReplyDeleteInteresting theory on being city town dwellers, the latest fad is Vegan, it is impossible to be a vegan and be self sufficient in food in the UK, they are reliant on lots of food miles and deforestation for there protein, if we all went vegetarian the fields would be empty of livestock, farmers are not going to spend money on animals just to make the countryside look nice, another thought is if we all went over to eating plant based foods we would be competing with animals for food and the animals would win as it wouldnt be ethical to control there numbers.
ReplyDeleteOne of the fundamental problems that is utterly beyond the comprehension of the average vegan is that the land you have determines what you can grow. Land that is northfacing, to wet, to dry, to alkaline, to acidic, to windy, to steep all have limitations and while some can be overcome to grow some crops often the return does not make it viable. In large parts of Wales the soil is to shallow hence the reliance on sheep. In Pembrokeshire the soil on the whole is deeper yet it is acidic, hence the old lime kilns everywhere, yet cattle and less so today dairy farms do fine. Potatoes will flourish there where as in the soil around say Llandovery 60 miles away they will not.
ReplyDeleteVegans particularly seem to think there is a one size fits all in farming yet the very difference from region to region you'd think would give them a clue.
John Seymour also points out what would we do with all the male animals if we didn't eat them? Not that I am against anybody being Vegetarian. Cows and sheep and donkeys are!
ReplyDeleteI can understand vegetarianism if all you eat is proper veg etc. What I dont understand is all the "pretend" meat products, made from who knows what and where. And veganism I don't get at all unless it's for health reasons.
ReplyDeleteWe had several years eating only our own or other smallholders produced meat....miss it.
( John Seymour also thought goats were only good for curry - what rubbish!)
I heartily agree about the pretend meat products. If you don't want meat--why a pretend one???
DeleteAnd yes--what ARE they made of?
mushroom paste most of them
DeleteWhat a person chooses to eat or not eat is a decision each person must make for themselves. What I do care about is the husbandry involved in producing that food - either plant or animal. Veg production can also be destructive of our resources. So...to each his/her own.
ReplyDeleteSomething I feel is often overlooked or neglected in the veg/meat arguments is the wonderful variety of the animals we have and enjoy as a result of man's domestication and use of them. Without a 'need' then man would not have practiced the husbandry needed to 'create' the various varieties of animals; nor would the animals involved have ever been allowed to come into being and enjoy their existence. We (I) gain so much enjoyment and pleasure from the whole earth's creation, I wouldn't want to eliminate any part of it for the sake of someone else's philosophy. Cruelty and kindness to me are totally separate issues of practice and attitude. I agree with Seymore completely that the animals should live happy and free as possible, and the end should come unexpectedly and swiftly. I could only hope the same for myself!
I am an accidental vegetarian. At first we only ate meat at weekends because it is really expensive and then it became less and less. I still eat eggs and posh boy still eats all dairy products, I have never been able to eat dairy, so do not suffer its loss. I therefore dont need or want fake cheese or yoghurt. Although I do eat/drink almond milk or soya milk for cereal and hot chocolate. I dont like the taste/texture of pork or of ham and bacon, so a bacon sandwich will never tempt me. It is mostly due to financial reasons and has just become a way of life. Plus I am not the best cook, I ruin quite a lot of dinners. If it was expensive meat I would be horrified of the waste. I am too tight fisted
ReplyDeleteEach to their own, I say.
I love John Seymour. He has a lot of valid arguments that i would not have had a response for as a teenage near-vegan. However it seems to be an assumption on his part that everyone has access to humane meat -they do not. And some would rather abstain than be an accessory in the horror that is factory farming in the U.S. Even locally grown does not always equate with best treatment.
ReplyDeleteI worry about all the antibiotics used. Having a family with a deep farming history, I agree things are not how they were. I saw meat in the supermarket today. Raised in The Netherlands slaughtered in Germany and being sold in England. That is a lot of miles for a pork chop, vacuum packed with plastic both sides.
DeleteIn a ideal world people (if they chose to) would only eat meat which had been raised humanely and led good lives, as is the aim of most self-sufficient producers. The alternative methods used in the meat industry is the reason that people choose to give up meat.
ReplyDeleteWe couldn't be self-sufficient without meat animals,laying hens and a milking cow. Its too hard to grow enough veges to replace all that anumal protein. I barely grow enough as it is! However if I was living in the city I might chose differently...
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